CaTGC

Trouble in Terrorist Town => TTT General => Topic started by: Naomie Smalls on 26.08.2014 18:30:33

Title: Rule 16.
Post by: Naomie Smalls on 26.08.2014 18:30:33
We seem to have forgotten about rule 16: Be forgiving. Everyone makes mistakes. Staff should also still follow this rule, everyone has become way too strict.

For example: A new player joins and doesn't know how this game exactly works, accidentally RDMs and without giving him any explanation he immediately gets warn and slain even though he apologized or told us that it was his first time. (I've seen it happen).

We should really loosen up a bit. Help new players when they do something wrong; sending them to the MOTD or just tell them the most important rules. That  would help a lot already, and maybe give us more fun players to play with.

We need to try inviting new players to the forums. When you ban them add something like 'if you think this ban was invalid, go to catgc.com and make an unban appeal' (when it is a long ban; 3 days or so) so they know what to do if actually want to continue playing on this server and actually want to improve themselves for it.

Stop permbanning people for 'excessive RDM'. What is excessive RDM? What if someone permbans someone for 8 RDMs and calls it 'excessive' and one does the same for 15 RDMs. Be more specific in these type of bans, because a perm ban is pretty much the same as forever. Staff members tend to give out permbans way too easily. Also, especially in those type of bans you should mention the fact that we have a forum where they can try and get themselves unbanned.

I hope everyone takes the time to actually read this and to improve as a staff member.

- Owen and Noomie ;)
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Corkus on 26.08.2014 20:20:09
I'd honestly say it's more often that staff members are too busy jerking around or AFKing than giving harsh punishments.

What i'm trying to say is, giving out punishments for every single mistake is better than not doing shit.
 8)
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Другарю Рийл_Дийл on 26.08.2014 20:26:26
I can start an arguement about part of the rule.
If a player has been reported but afterwards he makes an invalid response for example "you were a traitor", etc. I can't be forgiving about such situations. That means the guy is being unserious with the situation and deserves his punishment.
The responses with "sorry" are countless. That's something we can't miss. I've got tired of getting such responses as the player may think he can get away with his punishment like that. So I just let the player who reported to decide his punishment.
About new players: There can be a lot of definitions of "new player". It can be new player to the server, to the game, we can't be sure. We can't even be sure if he's new players or not since it can't be seen immediately. If it's either somebody who's joining to ruin a person's fun, it's obvious we can't be forgiving in such situations.
I think the player who submits a report deserves the right answer and wants the valid reason for him being killed. Immediately when I see somebody making excessing rdm even when he is new, I'm sorry, he had time to read the rules while the screen was loading.
If you are just finding a way to not deal with the reports by forcing us to be more forgiving, that won't lead in a good result.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Offline on 26.08.2014 20:35:48
Well actually you should explain what the player did wrong in the warning (if it is a new player on the server)
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Pyjak on 26.08.2014 20:42:44
"Send them to MOTD" Sure, if they would listen, but they (some of them) don't even reply in chat...
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Delusian on 26.08.2014 20:58:34
I agree with with Real Deal atm. I saw tons of reports saying "I'm sorry" and then I didn't warn him, and one round later he would rdm some other guy.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Naomie Smalls on 26.08.2014 21:09:17
I can start an arguement about part of the rule.
If a player has been reported but afterwards he makes an invalid response for example "you were a traitor", etc. I can't be forgiving about such situations. That means the guy is being unserious with the situation and deserves his punishment.
The responses with "sorry" are countless. That's something we can't miss. I've got tired of getting such responses as the player may think he can get away with his punishment like that. So I just let the player who reported to decide his punishment.
About new players: There can be a lot of definitions of "new player". It can be new player to the server, to the game, we can't be sure. We can't even be sure if he's new players or not since it can't be seen immediately. If it's either somebody who's joining to ruin a person's fun, it's obvious we can't be forgiving in such situations.
I think the player who submits a report deserves the right answer and wants the valid reason for him being killed. Immediately when I see somebody making excessing rdm even when he is new, I'm sorry, he had time to read the rules while the screen was loading.
If you are just finding a way to not deal with the reports by forcing us to be more forgiving, that won't lead in a good result.

You didn't read it well enough. I never said giving 'sorry' as an answer to a report gives you the right to not punish them. I literally meant; There was a guy who explained why he killed the person he got reported by and apologized in real chat. One of the admins (no idea who) warned and slayed him anyways. What? Why would you do that? Slaying alright, but warning? As if he doesn't already understand what he did wrong. He made a mistake, but the admin didn't even care I bet.
Also giving you guys a reason to not deal with reports wouldn't be needed, because when the last round was over and I checked the reports after being afk for writing this, there was 8 waiting reports and 4 mods who didn't give a shit.
But anyways, do we want the players in the server to improve or do we just want to ban them? Sure, they might've been too lazy to read the rules, but admins are there to make them understand the rules, it's a part of the work. I've seen it happen too often that people knew what they did wrong, apologized, but still got a warn and a slay, which in my opinion then would be too harsh if he just made a mistake.

Of course report answers like 'sorry' and 'you were traitor' aren't to be taken seriously, but that isn't the topic we're talking about in this topic at all.






And also Pyjak, if you tell them 'Please go to the !MOTD and read (rule he broke)' they most likely take the effort to. Depends on how you ask of course.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Offline on 26.08.2014 21:11:24
The point of punishment is not to let people suffer.
They point of it is to make people learn.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Bush on 26.08.2014 21:14:41
The point of punishment is not to let people suffer.
They point of it is to make people learn.
Fixed that 4 ya
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Naomie Smalls on 26.08.2014 21:17:09
The point of punishment is not to let people suffer.
The point of it is to make people learn.

Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Bush on 26.08.2014 21:19:44
The point of punishment is not to let people suffer.
The point of it is to make people learn.

Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Offline on 26.08.2014 21:20:03
The point of punishment is not to let people suffer.
They point of it is to make people learn.
Fixed that 4 ya

Thanks bush.
Was totally useful.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Pyjak on 26.08.2014 21:40:01
Well, whoever wrote sorry, I asked the guy who reported him, if he accepts the apology. If he did, then I didn't punish him. If he didn't, I punished him.

And also Pyjak, if you tell them 'Please go to the !MOTD and read (rule he broke)' they most likely take the effort to. Depends on how you ask of course.
Because when a guy is ghosting that will totally help.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Naomie Smalls on 26.08.2014 21:43:20
Well, whoever wrote sorry, I asked the guy who reported him, if he accepts the apology. If he did, then I didn't punish him. If he didn't, I punished him.

And also Pyjak, if you tell them 'Please go to the !MOTD and read (rule he broke)' they most likely take the effort to. Depends on how you ask of course.
Because when a guy is ghosting that will totally help.

Ghosting is different than RDMing isn't it
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: WiewManger on 27.08.2014 08:17:13
Only staff have to be forgiving?
 ;D ;D muahhahahaahah

Well staff don't always have to be that much of forgiving because players could forgive the rdm-er and not report him.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Offline on 27.08.2014 13:04:25
And actually.
Isn't the whole rule 16:
"Be forgiving.Everyone makes mistakes. You can mark them as suspect in doubt." ?
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Bush on 27.08.2014 13:14:49
And actually.
Isn't the whole rule 16:
"Be forgiving.Everyone makes mistakes. You can mark them as suspect in doubt." ?
This so much, I always thought this was related to miss click so you shoot someone/forgot to check an unidenifited body.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Offline on 27.08.2014 14:16:29
And actually.
Isn't the whole rule 16:
"Be forgiving.Everyone makes mistakes. You can mark them as suspect in doubt." ?
This so much, I always thought this was related to miss click so you shoot someone/forgot to check an unidenifited body.
Exactly
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Naomie Smalls on 27.08.2014 16:38:37
No.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Offline on 27.08.2014 16:40:23
You sure?
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Bush on 27.08.2014 17:01:34
No.
Well the MOTD atm says ""Be forgiving.Everyone makes mistakes. You can mark them as suspect in doubt" which make it seems like it's only related to the game, aka forgetting to check bodies/missclicks. Maybe the last part should be removed, or maybe change the rules all together to something like

"Everyone makes rule related mistakes, it's up to you whenever to forgive them or have them punished, you can always tell Staff you don't want him punished incase you understood your killers POV of the event"

I've forgiven several people simply by ignoring filing the report, since I knew it was a mistake, it's not really hard.

"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong"
-Bushman 2014.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Lalafell on 27.08.2014 17:20:12
No.
Well the MOTD atm says ""Be forgiving.Everyone makes mistakes. You can mark them as suspect in doubt" which make it seems like it's only related to the game, aka forgetting to check bodies/missclicks. Maybe the last part should be removed, or maybe change the rules all together to something like

"Everyone makes rule related mistakes, it's up to you whenever to forgive them or have them punished, you can always tell Staff you don't want him punished incase you understood your killers POV of the event"

I've forgiven several people simply by ignoring filing the report, since I knew it was a mistake, it's not really hard.

"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong"
-Bushman 2014.
Who are you and what have you done to Bush(sea)man  ???
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Bush on 27.08.2014 17:40:42
Who are you and what have you done to Bush(sea)man  ???
I can actually write good and well explained responds if I want, however I prefer to troll the forums.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: ♥ Kitty.exe ♥ on 27.08.2014 18:30:06
I'm proud of you Bush. :-*  He's totally right
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Bastard on 27.08.2014 18:40:04
Who are you and what have you done to Bush(sea)man  ???
I can actually write good and well explained responds if I want, however I prefer to troll the forums.

*responses

By the way, I think this rule applies to the game itself, the meta-game (getting RDM'd) and just life itself in general. Remember that forgiving someone else is actually a big step for the forgiver, not only the forgiven.

Errare humanum est, sed in errare perseverare diabolicum.

Ya know?? Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Bush on 27.08.2014 18:44:05
Who are you and what have you done to Bush(sea)man  ???
I can actually write good and well explained responds if I want, however I prefer to troll the forums.
*responses
Thanks m8 I knew I spelled that shit wrong.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Naomie Smalls on 27.08.2014 19:50:18
The point of this topic is not explaining how the rule exactly is written in the MOTD, we're asking staff to listen to the first part; 'Be forgiving, everyone makes mistakes.' Because nowadays staff doesn't try to improve their players, but only punishes them. I'd appreciate it if you guys wouldn't slowly get off-topic again.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Bush on 27.08.2014 20:10:32
The point of this topic is not explaining how the rule exactly is written in the MOTD, we're asking staff to listen to the first part; 'Be forgiving, everyone makes mistakes.' Because nowadays staff doesn't try to improve their players, but only punishes them. I'd appreciate it if you guys wouldn't slowly get off-topic again.
Well I think it should be up to whomever created the report, since he is the one who have been unfairly treated, and should therfore decide whenever or not the person who broke a rule gets punished. The staff's opinion should only matter related to whenever or not a rulebreak have happend, not releated to if the person should be punished or not.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Pyjak on 27.08.2014 20:22:22
Noomie, I don't think talking about the rules on a topic about a specific rule is offtopic? Or am I just too retarded to know that?
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Bush on 27.08.2014 20:45:25
Noomie, I don't think talking about the rules on a topic about a specific rule is offtopic? Or am I just too retarded to know that?
Well I was going sort offtopic by recommending to change the motd, and a topic goes pretty goddamn fast offtopic around here. Enough about that now thou, unless we want to go more offtopic.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Naomie Smalls on 27.08.2014 21:07:39
The point of this topic is not explaining how the rule exactly is written in the MOTD, we're asking staff to listen to the first part; 'Be forgiving, everyone makes mistakes.' Because nowadays staff doesn't try to improve their players, but only punishes them. I'd appreciate it if you guys wouldn't slowly get off-topic again.
Well I think it should be up to whomever created the report, since he is the one who have been unfairly treated, and should therfore decide whenever or not the person who broke a rule gets punished. The staff's opinion should only matter related to whenever or not a rulebreak have happend, not releated to if the person should be punished or not.

Omg that's the point, the ADMINS don't listen, they just punish. That's what I said..
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Bush on 27.08.2014 21:28:29
Good, then we think alike.
Title: Re: Rule 16.
Post by: Offline on 27.08.2014 21:29:20
Sometimes you don't even have enough time as admin to handle a report in the right way.
You mostly just check RDM or not and then punish.
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